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May
6, 2003
An Activist in the Trenches
an Interview
with Gretta Duisenberg
by PAUL de ROOIJ
Symbols are important. Israeli soldiers react
like a bull in front of a red cloth when they see the Palestinian
colors. This same reaction was elicited from Dutch Jews when
a Palestinian flag was hung from the balcony of Gretta Duisenberg's
house last year. The hysterical response to this symbolic gesture
didn't send Mrs. Duisenberg cowering, but instead it strengthened
her resolve to speak out against Israeli oppression of the Palestinian
people. She helped set up the activist group, Stop the Occupation,
which aims to educate the Dutch public about the nature of Israeli
occupation of Palestinian land, and to change Dutch policy in
the region. In January 2003 she visited the Occupied Palestinian
Territories eliciting the by now predictable response from right-wing
groups in the Netherlands.
Paul de Rooij: How did you become involved in the campaign
to end the Israeli occupation of Palestine?
Gretta Duisenberg: In April 2002 there was a large demonstration
in Amsterdam against Israeli actions against the Palestinians
in the Occupied Territories. At that time, I was in Germany (where
I live part of the year) and I saw the announcement of the demonstration.
I ordered a Palestinian flag via the web and went to Amsterdam
to participate in the demonstration. On the way I met two students
from Jenin whose parents were experiencing terrible things. At
the time of the demonstration, the events in Jenin had just ended,
but the Israeli army siege of the Church of the Nativity in Bethlehem
was continuing. It was all very emotional. When I went home I
thought: this is not enough, I must do more. Because I had to
travel, I placed the Palestinian flag in the veranda of my studio.
When I returned from my trip, it turned out that the flag had
caused much commotion among my - Jewish - neighbors. Crazily
enough, this incident made it into the press.
I was invited by a Palestinian solidarity
group in Haarlem to attend one of their discussion sessions,
and out of these meetings came the idea to set up a solidarity
movement at a national level. With some activists and some knowledgeable
people in these matters, we set up a group to push this initiative.
We aimed to address the enormous shortage of information among
the public in relation to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. We
also aimed to address the Western proclivity to address the symptoms,
but not the cause of the problems in area. We also aimed to address
 misconceptions like the commonly
heard refrain: "stop the violence on both sides and go back
to the negotiation table." Given the context of the conflict
this would mean that the Palestinians would have to negotiate
their freedom with their occupier. Israel is not only much stronger
militarily, economically, but also in the cultural and historical
realms -- for these, several centuries of Orientalism are responsible.
The Western world can easily identify with the Israelis who are
like "us", and who have a similar "modern"
society. Something had to be done to address the overwhelming
asymmetric advantage that Israel always seemed to have. Finally,
something had to be done to rectify the gigantic injustice perpetrated
against the Palestinians. They paid for the guilt feelings in
the West because of the holocaust, while they had nothing to
do with that. Europe must not allow its guilt feelings about
what happened to the Jews during the Second World War to silence
its criticism of the inhuman Israeli policies.
The heaviest burden the Palestinians
are enduring now is the occupation of their territories. UN Resolution
242 calls on Israel to withdraw from the territories it occupied
since 1967. Although the international community supported this
resolution, the United States and the European Union in particular,
have allowed Israel to ignore this resolution for more than 35
years, to lay siege to the land, to build settlements, steal
resources like water, and to make normal life impossible for
the Palestinians.
"Stop the Occupation" is a
slogan that will be understood by all. With our petition, addressed
to all governments of the European Union, to the European Parliament
and the European Commission, we try to exert pressure for them
to take on a more pro-active role in resolving this conflict,
rather than slavishly following the United States.
PR(2)
Had you been active in any similar cause in the past, e.g., the
war in Vietnam?
GD: I
have been an activist all my life. All along I have been engaged
in human rights activities, ranging form the Anti-Apartheid movement
in South Africa, the struggle for independence of Rhodesia, where
I chose the side of the late Joshua Nkomo, the movement against
stationing cruise missiles with nuclear warheads in the Netherlands
to, nowadays, the movement to bring peace and justice to Israel
and the Palestinians, by establishing safe borders for both peoples,
and finding a just solution for the plight of the Palestinian
people and helping them to rebuild their devastated territories.
PR(3)
What elicited the hostile reaction to the Palestinian flag hanging
from your balcony, and what arguments were used against it?
GD:
My neighbors with whom I got along very well were bothered with
the flag hanging from by my balcony. They asked me to remove
the flag because according to them I was expressing sympathy
with the Palestinian suicide bombers. I was going to remove the
flag, but first I wanted to talk to them about it. I explained
that I hung the flag in solidarity with the Palestinian people,
and not for any other reason. The neighbor became angry and held
me personally responsible if something happened to their children
who live in Israel.
But of course, that is not possible;
they couldn't hold me responsible for what happens in Israel!
Subsequently, various lawyers have sought to prosecute me for
anti-Semitism and "incitement to hatred." However,
please note that anti-Semites judge the existence of Jews, and
that is by no means what I am doing. I am judging, and yes condemning,
the actions of the Israeli government. I am disgusted by what
the Palestinians have to endure.
I removed the flag, but then I received
a letter expressing solidarity with the following: "It seems
that just like Palestinian people their flag must also be banished!
Mrs. Duisenberg, I will give your flag asylum." The flag
then went on a relay tour of The Netherlands until it was stolen
and burned by some of our opponents. After that, however, hundreds
of Palestinian flags were bought by our supporters and are displayed
every first Sunday of the month throughout Holland.
PR(4)
The "Stop the Occupation" campaign seeks to obtain
signatures for a petition. What is going to happen to the petition
list, and what do you aim to achieve?
GD:
The petition list has been sent twice to the Dutch government
and the other Heads of State or governments of the European Union,
to the European Parliament and the European Commission, and will
be sent repeatedly with an ever-increasing number of signatories.
This petition list now exceeds 50,000 signatories. The signatories
are a wide spectrum of Dutch society, and include signatures
from some ex-Prime Ministers and other highly respected individuals.
What we aim to achieve is for Europe to exert pressure on Israel
to withdraw to the borders of 1967, to comply with the relevant
UN-resolutions, and to cooperate in order find a just solution
for the Palestinian refugee-problem.
Now that the so-called "Road Map" has been published,
according to which the borders of the Palestinian state will
have to be negotiated in the next two years, our action becomes
all the more relevant. In our view, those borders need not
or rather -- should not be negotiated anymore: they were defined
in UN-Resolution 242. And, as I said before, that Resolution
was supported by the US and Europe alike!
Europe, if united, is by no means powerless: the Treaty of Association
between Israel and the EU -- granting Israel many advantages
-- could be suspended; this is possible if there are indications
of violations of human rights (Art. 1). Furthermore, Article
83 states that Europe must terminate this treaty if Israel violates
the so-called territorial principle -- this states that Israel
is not allowed to export products with a "Made in Israel"
label if these are not produced within Israel proper. Israel
exports products from the Occupied Palestinian territories with
"Made in Israel" label, which is a flagrant breach
of the Treaty (Art. 83). Landing rights for airlines and shipping
lines could similarly be suspended. And finally, the trade in
and transfer of weapons could be forbidden. But there is an even
stronger argument to terminate the treaty: not terminating the
treaty makes Europe complicit in the occupation and it diminishes
its credibility in its stated aim to obtain justice and human
rights in the region.
I just would like to point out one thing: doing away with the
association treaty isn't really a sanction. What we are trying
to achieve is the removal of certain trade benefits that Israel
has presently, e.g., the avoidance of a 14% tariff rate. The
removal of the treaty only means that the EU will treat Israel
like any other country.
PR(5):
Besides the petition drive, what else is planned by the "Stop
the Occupation" campaign? Is a boycott campaign gaining
momentum in Holland?
GD:
We are not an action group. We initiate and stimulate activities,
and participate in some. However, our primary aim is to inform
the public, to promote discussion, and to influence public opinion
and opinion-makers and thereby to muster support for our drive
to influence the European decision-makers to raise their fists
in the basic conflict in the Middle East. For this purpose we
organize information meetings and symposia, we invite speakers
and we try to stimulate discussion. We want to show the implications
of the occupation on the lives of Palestinians, and show their
travails.
A consumer boycott is a strong instrument for all who want to
do more than add their names to a petition. However, in The Netherlands
there is a large group who has begun to question their unconditional
support for Israel. It is primarily this group that we are trying
to reach with the facts, with information and with a simple
slogan: "Stop the Occupation". This is a call that
means nothing more or less than calling for the implementation
of basic international rights and observance of human rights.
Can anyone really be opposed to this?
PR(6):
To have an effective boycott it is necessary that the country
of origin not be hidden from the buying public. Now, Israelis
attempt to hide the provenance of their produce by using Holland
as an entrepôt. Has there been any discussion with the
entrepôt companies to avoid hiding the origin of the Israeli
produce and flowers?
GD:
As far as I know the discussion of this topic hasn't started
yet. I do know that there is a group researching the mechanism
of this Israeli practice. I know that this "repackaging
& re-labeling practice", whereby Israeli imported products
are relabeled as "Made in Holland" is occurring on
a large scale. To what extent the importers are involved in this,
I don't know, but this practice is common.
PR(7):
You stated that the Israeli actions in the Occupied Territories
were worse than the Nazis occupation of Holland (excluding the
holocaust). Could you give some examples of this?
GD:
Although the press reported this, I never made such statements.
This is a clear example of information manipulation. During my
trip in the Occupied Territories and an emotional visit to Jenin,
a news reporter asked me by telephone: "Do you think that
there is a comparison possible between the occupation of 1940-45
and the Israeli occupation of Palestinian land." I said:
yes, but with the exception of the holocaust, and that the Israeli
occupation has lasted seven times longer than the German occupation
of The Netherlands. The journalist or his editor changed the
published question to refer to the "Nazi Occupation".
It turns out that this journalist was the previous chairman of
the Dutch Zionist Organization. I shouldn't have answered the
provocative question posed by this so-called journalist. You
really can't compare what is going on in the Occupied Territories
with anything else in the world. Whoever enters this debate about
the Israeli-Palestinian conflict runs into all sorts of political
taboos and unspeakable questions. The pro-Israeli supporters
know that the occupation is the primary cause of the conflict,
but they seem to only pay attention to the symptoms and close
their eyes for the background of the conflict. There is a premeditated
distortion of cause and effect.
PR(8):
The Netherlands and the UK governments are known as the staunchest
defenders of Israeli interests in Europe. They are also the ones
stopping Europe from taking a tougher and more unambiguous role
in the Israel-Palestine conflict. In your opinion, why does the
Dutch government take such a stance?
GD:
The Netherlands has had a close historical relationship with
Israel, and this can be explained by several factors. First,
there is a guilt feeling in The Netherlands. During the Second
World War, disproportionately many Dutch Jews were taken to the
Nazi concentration camps. Of the 130,000 who were transported
to the camps, more than 100,000 never returned; and those who
did return weren't always welcomed with open arms. Not much was
done in terms of compensation, and the stolen or confiscated
goods were not returned. These guilt feelings are justified,
but they hamper a serious debate about justice and freedom in
the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Second, after the Second World
War the Netherlands became a social democracy, it could easily
identify with the "socialist" experiments of the kibbutzim
in Israel, and there was jubilation about the viability of such
experiments. Third, Dutch foreign policy since the Second World
War had a strong Atlantic orientation. In other words, the strong
pro-Israeli tendency had all to do with the pro-Israeli bias
in the American foreign policy.
Now one sees that the public opinion
since the 1980s wavered and people have become more aware of
the Palestinian condition, their cause and their human rights
in general. However, one cannot yet see the reflection of this
on Dutch government, even though there are plenty of politicians
who have signed our petition.
PR(9):
Many Dutch people of the older generation were very pro-Israel.
In your opinion, has this enthusiasm been tempered lately? How
about the younger generation, how do they view Israel?
GD:
Our action led to us receiving many letters from Dutch people,
many written by the older generation, who were ashamed about
their previous ebullient pro-Israeli stance. Many found that
they hadn't dared utter criticism before, but now "if Gretta
dared, then I dare too." Among the younger generation there
is much more criticism of the Israeli leadership.
PR(10):
Is it only a minority of Dutch Jews who voice their strident
opposition to the "Stop the Occupation" campaign?
GD:
We shouldn't focus on what the Dutch Jews say. There are Dutch
people who support our "Stop the Occupation" action
and there are others who try to sabotage us. Among the signatories
there are Jews and non-Jews. The unquestioning support for Israel
is found among a small but strong rightwing current in the Netherlands
that includes the Christian-Right. These groups try to instill
fear by equating any criticism of the Israeli regime with anti-Semitism.
This is propaganda. It is unimaginable that people who preach
loving your fellow man close their eyes when confronted with
the injustice Palestinians have endured for more than 35 years.
PR(11)
Finally, if you were to advise activists concerned with the situation
in the Middle East -- Palestine in particular -- then what would
you urge them to do? In your view, what is the most effective
action to oppose the Israeli occupation of Palestine?
GD:
I would advise the activists concerned to join forces to convince
their Governments, the European Union to fight for justice, peace
and upholding human rights in Palestine and Israel. We as Europeans
have the moral duty and the strength to no longer slavishly follow
what the US is dictating.
STOP THE OCCUPATION FOR PEACE'S SAKE !!!
Paul de Rooij
is an economist living in London and can be reached at proox@hotmail.com
(NB: all attachments will be deleted automatically). He will
forward any valid questions to Mrs. Duisenberg. The website of
Stop the Occupation is www.stopdebezetting.nl/international/index.html.
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