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Now
"Those Who Call Me an Anti-Semite
are a Small Fringe
of Radical People in My Country"
An
Inteview with Jimmy Carter
By RIZ KHAN
Transcript of December 12
interview on Al Jazeera.
RIZ KHAN:President Carter I
wanted to have a chance to ask you a question about your book,
Palestine:
Peace Not Apartheid.. Obviously.I'll start with a quote
actually. The first one on my list, it says "A system of
apartheid with two people occupying the same land but completely
separated from each other with Israelis totally dominant and
suppressing violence by depriving Palestinians of their basic
human rights." Now a word like apartheid is very powerful
message coming from you. How much did you have to think about
using that one particular word?
FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT JIMMY
CARTER: Well obviously the word applies to what's happening in
Palestine and not what's happening in Israel itself. Because
Israel is obviously recognized as a democracy and within Israel
itself, within the nation there are equal rights for both Arab
Israelis and also Jewish Israelis.
So the book applies to the
Palestines. Secondly I use that word deliberately and it's an
accurate description of the circumstances there because I wanted
to provoke an almost non-existent debate and discussion in my
own country.
Where rarely is any sort of
presentation of the conflicting points of view that I see everyday
when I'm is Israel, in Jerusalem or Tel Aviv or when I'm in an
Arab country obviously or Europe. So I wanted this book to be
somewhat provocative and that's why I used a deliberately provocative
word.
RIZ: Well Sir you've faced
a lot of backlash in the media, especially the American media
for using this word and also for your description of what you
feel is wrong with this situation. What is your view on the
American media's backlash with you? What's your view on the way
the American media stands on this nowadays?
CARTER: Well I feel quite as
ease and think the media has been very fair to me. Certainly
the electronic media, radio, television, I've probably been on
60 or 70 broadcasting stations since I began promoting my book
just about a week ago. And they've permitted me to answer their
questions and to present my views and explain my book without
any intimidation or editing. I can't say the same thing for
all of the written media. But even there when I have submitted
an editorial versus I'm in Los Angeles right now, I've submitted
an editorial to the Los Angeles time at their request and last
week they published it in their newspaper. But my reference
to the general discussions before my book was published and my
hope is the publication of the book itself, which is quite an
accurate text by the way, will open up fir the first time and
maintain open for the first time in many many years equal in
it equal discussions of the issues that relate to Palestine.
RIZ: So I want to get to another
quote in the book. This one, the second one I have in my list
here, referring to obstacles to peace in the Middle East. You
write "Israel's continued control and colonization of Palestine
land have been a primary obstacle to a comprehensive peace agreement
in the Holy Land." Now you've accused to being anti-Semitic
for the comments you made in the book and those sorts of comments.
How do you respond to that claim?
CARTER: Well you didn't quote
that whole thing because I went on to say on the other hand the
Israelis feel intimidated and quite often afraid, I know many
Israelis and they are seeing horrible acts of terrorism of violence
against innocent Israeli citizens, both inside Israel where there
weren't any combatants and also in occupied territories. So
there's equal blame on both sides and obviously as long as there
are acts of violence against innocent Israelis, the Israelis
are gonna react in a very strong way to protect themselves and
they use these terrorist attacks or acts of violence, if you
prefer to call it that, as an excuse for maintaining their control
over occupied territories and also for building the wall which
penetrates deep within Palestine.
Israelis used the building
of an enormous wall around Gaza. The excuse was this would inhibit
terrorists' attacks, to use that phrase, against Israeli citizens.
So there are troubling circumstances
on both sides and every Israeli knows the threatening comments
that are coming for instance from Iran from Tehran vowing that
Israel as a nation would be destroyed and they read some radical
voices among the Palestinians saying that they would never accept
the right of Israel to exist and to live in peace. So the blame
for the problem that has prevented peace is obviously from both
sides.
RIZ: Well Sir, we've had a
large number of emails, I'm going to read two of them one after
the other because they refer to similar subjects and get your
response to them once I've read them. The first one's from Lina
Barakat who writes from Palestine, who says " If you had
this clear stand of the Arab-Israel conflict while you were still
in office, would it have changed history? How can we break through
this vicious cycle of "silence while in the office and talk
later"? Please convey my gratitude and admiration for Mr.
Carter" The second one from Riaz Gaudir, which we got from
our feedback forum on Al Jazeera says "President Carter
was at the heart"
CARTER: I would rather take
it one at a time because I may not remember them both. Let me
say that when I was in office I spent 4 years to the best of
my ability using all the influence of my personal life and the
influence I had as President of the United States to bring peace
to Israel and her neighbors. I met with every leader in the
entire Middle East, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria,
as well as multiple factions in Israel and I tried to find some
leaders who would negotiates and I finally got Begin and Sadaat.
Prime Minister Begin of Israel and Sadaat from Egypt to negotiate,
others refused. The major threat to Israel militarily and otherwise
at the time was obviously Egypt. I knew that before I became
president there had been 4 years in just 25 years. We were successful
in negotiating a peace agreement at Camp David between Begin
and Sadaat. It was signed in September 1978 and it guaranteed
withdrawal of Israel from occupied territories and specifically
honoring UN 242 and also Prime Minister Begin agreed specifically
to withdraw Israelis military and political forces from Palestine.
This was presented to the Israeli parliament, the Knesset, and
they approved this agreement by 85%. Later 6 years later..6
months later in April of 79 I finally negotiated a detailed peace
treaty between Israel and Egypt and this was also ratified by
both governments and not a word of that peace agreement between
Israel and Egypt has been broken. Now since 1979, almost 27
years, so I did the best I could when I was president and if
all of those commitments had been honored then we'd have peace
in the Middle East.
RIZ: Sir I'm gonna get in a
call from Turkey because Ahmed is on the line and would like
to ask a question.
Call from Ahmed, Turkey: First
my honor to speak to Mr. President. When I first became citizen
I voted for you and I still now I don't understand how you lost
the election. My question to you: Is it time to start a new
party beside the Republican and the Democrat...the far right
and the far left is really making the issue very big..
RIZ: It was really about the
two parties. Is it time for a third party in the US?
CARTER: I don't thinkwe've
had efforts for third party candidates for many many years.
In fact when I ran for President Re-election, the third party
got 10%, I got about 41% and President Regan got about 50% and
he won. So there's been.there's room for third parties but I
think it's quite unlikely they would have a major third party
candidate in 2008 but it's still a possibility. We have 2 parties
in our country and most people believe that it will continue
but it's not guaranteed. There's nothing that would prevent
it on the Constitution.
But as far as the Middle East
peace process in concerned, I don't think's gonna make much difference
which party is controlling the Congress and it may make a difference
about which party controls the White House because up until 6
years ago every president had tried to bring accommodation between
Israel and its neighbors by some form of peace talks. But for
the last 6 years, as you know there hasn't been one day of peace
talks.
RIZ: Sir we have Lou on the
line from Illinois in the USA. It's nice to have a call from
the United States. Go ahead Lou.
LOU: Yes good morning President
Carter. I'm so glad that you've written this book. As a student
of Middle East politics and an American Christian, I wonder do
you believe the reason that Americans support is so strong for
Israel perhaps might have to do with the Christian belief, or
the Christian misunderstanding of the historical state of Israel
with the modern state of Israel.
CARTER: I think that it's certainly
a major factor that may not be understood in the rest of the
world. I teach Bible lessons in my little church every Sunday,
I taught 2 days ago and then a week before I taught. I teach
about 40 times a year when I can be in my hometown of Plains.
I teach half the lessons in Hebrew Scriptures and the other half
in the New Testament. Every since I was 3 years old I've always
looked upon Israel as a people that was blessed by God through
his covenant by Abraham. I taught this last Sunday as a matter
of fact. I reminded people that Abraham's first child from Ishmael
was a founder of the Arab nations in general. His second child
obviously, by his wife Sarah was a founder of the Jewish people
and then after the early Christian church was founded, Paul explainedSaint
Paul explained that those blessing from God for his children
were based not on the race but on their faith. Since Christians
believe have faith in God to have faith in Jesus Christ that
we are also children of Abraham. So Christians, Muslims and
Jews all are children of Abraham, and I think that's one of the
factors that many people outside this country don't understand.
But most of our teachers in Sunday school church sermons has
been devoted to the protection of Israel and Israel's falling
out with God and being punished and when Israel was in favor
with God, how God rewarded the Israelis. So I think this is
a major factor of the situation in America. Also of course there
is a very strong and powerful organization completely legitimate
that was founded when President Dwight Eisenhower was in office
in the 1950's. Now 50 years ago the American Israeli Political
Action Committee and purpose is to explain to the American people
the policies of the Israeli government and to induce the American
people to accept those policies as part of American policy.
Those are the two major factors. But I think as you point out
this is a very important factor that the Christian believes that
nation of Israel and the people of Israel have God's blessing.
RIZ: President Carter you have
some suggestions toI just wanted to get it through one of your
quotes from your book where you say there is some prospect for
both sides, "the rhetoric and demand from both sides may
be harsh, but there are obvious areas of agreement that can provide
a basis for progress." So on that note, Sir what would
you suggest?
CARTER: I read the quote from
Prime Minister Haniya who is Hamas head of the parliament. What
needs to be done by Hamas is to continue their cease fire. Secondly
they need to be accommodating with Fatah leaders to get a unity
government and the best proposal I've seen is by Marwan Barghouti
who's a prisoner in Israeli prisons but to bring them together.a
declaration. It's very clear that no further acts of violence
will be perpetrated against Israel and that Hamas will accept
the same proposal and that then Crown Prince Abdullah of Saudi
Arabia gave to the Arab League that is that Israel will be accepted
to live in peace within its legal borders.
I think that Hamas needs to
do that, if Hamas will just say we will accept Isael's right
to exist and to exist in peace inside it's 1967 borders, inside
borders that are guaranteed by the United Nations resolutions,
inside borders they have accepted in the past. I think that would
be a major step forward. It would make it much easier for people
that want peace to see some progress made. So I hope we'll have
some peace between Hamas and Fatah, a unity government and a
declaration by all Palestinians in position of authority 'we
will accept Israel's right to exist in peace within its legal
borders.'
RIZ: We have Kelly on the line
from the United Kingdom in Cheshire, Kelly go ahead.
Mr. President good evening
to you. I wonder why nobody and I mean nobody did, in office
or out of office to say to Israel "you are wrong",
nobody. When they do say, and if they succeed to do say to Israel
they are in the wrong that accuse of being anti-Semitic. It
is absolutely ridiculous, which they accuse you to be now. Which
is amazing and it seem to me that the..
RIZ: President Carter go ahead.
So Jewish lobbies in control, nobody's actually speaking out.
CARTER: Well it's not the Jewish
lobby by the way. It's the Israeli Political Action Committee
and this does not include nearly all the prominent Jews. Since
I wrote this book by the way, I would say 8 or 10 very prominent
Jewish organizations have expressed their full approval for the
book. These are ones in America who are strong supporters of
Israel but want to see Israel change its policies so that peace
can come to the country that they love. So it's not the Jewish
lobby, it's a lobby that's designed to explain the government
of Israel's policy in America. And that's the reason I finally
wrote this book, which I knew would be quite controversial because
as a former president and as someone who's helped bring peace
to Israel with Egypt, I wanted to able to speak out and I'm perfectly
willing to accept some epithets against me. I'm not anti-Semitic
at all and this is just a small fringe of radical people in my
country and you have the same kinds of people in Great Britain
from where you're speaking, and also they exist in every country
on Earth. But in general American people would like to see peace
come to Israel and also peace come to the Palestinians.
Let me say once again that
when anyone from an Arab country or Muslim country that the Jews
in America don't like the book, that's not true at all. I've
had overwhelming support from Jews in this country and from Jewish
organizations in this country. Last night I was signing books
in Pasadena California, there were demonstrators outside, by
far the largest number of demonstrators who were Jews by the
way were in favor of my book and in favor of peace in the Mid
East. There was a smaller group of Jewish Americans who criticized
my book. So it would be a mistake for anyone to interpret the
fact or to claim that the Jews in America are any different from
other citizens in America. Overwhelmingly in my opinion both
Jews and others in America are in favor of peace in Israel and
justice and peace for the Palestinians and for other nations
who live in the Middle East.
RIZ: Sir with about a minute
to go I've got a question. You've lived a full life; you were
born in a small town in Georgia and went on to be President and
a peacemaker. I wonder from your perspective have you done everything
you set out to do? Have you achieved your own expectations in
life?
CARTER: Well there is one expectation
I haven't achieved in life and that is to help bring peace to
people in what I call the Holy Land. This has been a burning
desire of mine ever since before I became President and even
after I left the White House. My hope is that this book in a
small way will simulate new talks, new discussions and eventually
peace negotiations between Israel and first of all the Palestinians
and the recent Baker-Hamilton committee have recommended. Also
peace talks between Israel and Syria, to bring peace to the entire
Holy Land. That is a frustrating desire of mine that I hope
to see in the remaining years of my life.
CounterPunch
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